Candidate Interview: Clyde Picht

by Steve Smith

clydeClyde Picht, the former City Council representative and current mayoral candidate, is not exactly Mayor Moncrief’s biggest fan. The homepage of his website says it all. Underneath the “ImPicht Moncrief” headline, he lists his campaign platform: return ethics to local government, decentralize government to better serve the people, bring public safety and environmental quality to Barnett Shale, return the public to the process of government and fix suburban streets before they become impassable.

Below are Picht’s answers to West and Clear’s email with a few questions about his campaign:

West and Clear: What is your position on urban gas drilling? Do you believe the current ordinance offers enough protections? Do you believe that injection wells can be safely operated in the city? If not, do you have a position on disposal of wastewater from the fracking process?

Clyde Picht: I favor urban drilling but the ordinance is inadequate in addressing public safety and environmental issues. I frankly don’t know that much about injection wells but there have been instances of blowouts in rural areas so I am concerned about them and the potential damage to water tables and such in the urban setting. Nobody knows much about the problems concerning that fracking wastewater. We do know it is a proprietary formulation containing toxic ingredients and disposal should be a big concern. Another issue to be concerned about is the total water usage. With each well consuming an average 3M gallons of water for fracking and a potential for 7000 wells, that’s 21B gallons of fracking water gone to total waste. There needs to be a recycling and recovery effort.

W&C: What is your position on tax incentives and special tax districts being used to entice businesses to relocate and/or expand in Fort Worth? In a few cases, these incentives have gone to businesses (Cabela’s for example) which can more than afford to operate without them, thus costing the City much needed tax revenue. Will you continue this practice?

CP: I have not favored tax incentives to bring in new business. The best reasons for business to move to Fort Worth are: educated work force, transportation hubs, low cost of doing business, and low cost of living for employees so you don’t have to pay them so much. All the aforementioned exist without tax breaks except that as neighborhoods deteriorate they become less than attractive for new resident workers. By increasing the effort to improve our residential stock we will still be an attractive destination for business.

W&C: What is your position on the development of commuter and light rail in Fort Worth?

CP:We don’t have the mass to support mass transit so we must realize that any commuter or light rail will require being subsidized by the taxpayers. If the taxpayers want to pay extra for the fun of riding a trolley, etc, that’s okay as long as they have an opportunity to vote on it knowing what they are paying for.

W&C: What do you believe is the most important city issue that you want to address if elected?

CP:All issues are important. We collect substantial taxes to provide a range of services. We are not doing a good job on street maintenance, storm water runoff and drainage, controlling spending, contracting for services, prioritizing the expense of government, providing services commensurate with growth, and guaranteeing our residents an ethical and honest political leadership.

W&C: Why should people vote for you?

CP:Because my education, experience and integrity are superior to the others, especially our unethical, conflicted, dishonest incumbent mayor.

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40 Comments, Comments or Pings

  1. Mr. Picht’s comments on rail are very unfortunate. “The fun of riding a trolley?” We’re not talking about some creaky old tourist attraction here – we’re talking about creating a serious transit infrastructure for what is a big city that’s only getting bigger. It’s clear that Mr. Picht does not understand the extreme importance of creating an effective rail transit system in controlling traffic, shaping growth, improving air quality, and providing more choice in mobility and living arrangement for the citizens of this city. He seems only concerned about moving *cars* around, rather than how to effectively move *people.* (And news flash – it’s hardly just rail that’s “subsidized.”)

    With that sort of 20th century attitude I could not vote for Mr. Picht. This city needs a serious mobility infrastructure and building more roads and highways alone isn’t going to cut it. This sort of thinking for Fort Worth would lead to a future of ever-increasing traffic snarls, ever-decreasing air quality, ever-spreading sprawl, and ever-shrinking appeal for the city. I am no big fan of Mayor Moncrief, but he seems to understand better the importance of multimodal transportation systems to this city. I would gladly vote for him than sign Fort Worth’s future over to a mindset that considers transit a “fun” gag or frivolity.

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  2. Neil Jones

    sorry Mr. Picht…

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  3. CL

    I agree with Kevin. I am disappointed in Mr. Picht’s idea of a commuter or light rail being a fun trolley. This makes him seem out of touch in my opinion. The commuter/light rail is a big deal for me. It is something that I am excited about and look forward to.

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  4. Travis

    Mr. Picht’s opinion on mass transit just goes to show his uninformed & suburban mindset. Fort Worth doesn’t have the mass needed to support mass transit?!?! He has evidently never heard of a city called Portland, Oregon. Portland is smaller than FW in both city & metro population, but their mass transit system has proven to be more successful than expected. Furthermore, it has spawned BILLIONS of dollars in new development in the center city along the transit lines.

    If FW leaders continue with their false impression of mass transit, the city WILL SUFFER economically. Cities that have been proactive will become more appealing to both businesses & residents. Skeptical? Consider Chicago & Detroit, both cities were long in a heated contest as to which was the power of the Midwest. Following WW2, Chicago increased investment in the “L” (subway), while Detroit (under the pressure from the auto industry) invested in a metropolitan highway system that proved deadly by drawing residents to the suburbs, who took their tax dollars with them. The end result was evident, as Chicago would leave Detroit in the dust economically.

    Austin currently has plans to produce an urban streetcar system. Their first light rail line has recently been completed. If Fort Worth is not proactive in developing an effective mass transit system, we will then be a less attractive option for business investment than cities that did make this investment. Thus, we will ultimately be on a downward economic spiral once the oil quits gushing.

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  5. TXChick

    Really? One comment about mass transit is what you are concerned with considering the issues we are facing in Fort Worth? Talk about uninformed…Did you read the sentence leading up to that comment – about if that’s what taxpayers want and they would get a vote. What a refreshing change that would be. Our voices being heard. You could go to city hall and speak and not be glared at or intimidated by your mayor. Is mass transit more important than getting a say in where your tax dollars go? Please look into all the issues before casting your vote, for everyone’s sake.

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  6. Michelle

    I have to agree with TXCHICK. I am not opposed to the streetcar or light rail but I am opposed to the lack of citizen input on these matters. It is our money and just because the council and mayor and the boards that they appoint to represent us (or them) think that these projects are in our best interest, does not mean that the taxpayers agree.

    I am aware that there are workshops and task forces employed to gauge citizen support but I’ve found that, at times, council ignores recommendations to an extent, ie. the last gas drilling ordinance recommendations. I don’t share Picht’s viewpoint on light rail but I do appreciate that he wants things to be voted on by those who pay for them/are affected by these decisions.

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  7. TXCHICK,

    Uninformed? What, exactly, are you basing that on? The fact that I don’t agree that something like gas drilling is the #1 priority for the city?

    *Yes,* a comment about mass transit IS what I’m concerned about – it is a critically important part of this city’s future growth and livability and the mindset voiced in the interview is not something I can support. Especially doubly that Mr. Picht jabs rail for being “subsidized” when TxDOT themselves has admitted that roads don’t even come close to paying for themselves. All forms of transportation are subsidized in this country to some degree or another. The belief expressed above indicates to me the same sort of 20th century post-WWII mindset that got us to the current condition of unchecked sprawl, traffic snarls, air quality problems, and other issues surrounding our transportation and living arrangements.

    An effective, multimodal transportation system is personally my #1 priority for the city of Fort Worth – we cannot continue to just think about how to move cars. We have to think about how to move *people.* That means light/commuter rail, urban circulators like streetcars, an effective bus system, effective bicycle infrastructure, full and complete pedestrian infrastructure and urban planning, *and* effective roads and our existing highways. I consider this a top priority – moreso than gas drilling or any of the other current issues, to be frank. If we elect somebody with the mindset of the past 50+ years of status-quo solely auto-centric thinking, this city will choke on traffic and air quality issues. And we’ll wind up being less attractive to forward-thinking, innovative businesses and residents.

    I’m not a big fan of Mayor Moncrief but I’m also not a fan of voting into office a mindset that would take Fort Worth ten steps back in terms of transportation and planning.

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  8. Sam

    KEVIN,

    Great point

    “auto-centric thinking…” and because of it, “this city will choke on traffic and air quality issues. And we’ll wind up being less attractive to forward-thinking, innovative businesses and residents.”

    Essentially what an urban planner at the North Central Texas Council of Governments told me six years ago. I agree 100% with your reasoning except that I think the damage is already being done. When’s the last time you saw Fort Worth at the top of a list of best places to live? If it was recommenced as a good place to live it was probably for the pro-business government and low taxes.

    I know I’m taking your point about the “mindset of the past 50+ years of status-quo..thinking” a bit out of context, but it really strikes at the heart of the problem. What the city needs is bright, imaginative, forward-looking leadership that realizes the next 50 years of governance can’t mirror the past 50. The current environment of cronyism and serving business interests ahead of the public’s best interests won’t take the city where it needs to go in the 21st century.

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  9. TXChick

    KEVIN,
    I didn’t say gas drilling was my #1 priority. It is the #1 priority for those with campaigns financed by the industry and those that are being drilled on, near or under right now (without better controls in place this number will continue to grow significantly). I simply shared my opinion and asked those that had posted to look into all the issues before casting their vote. While I don’t disagree that mass transit is a concern that needs to be addressed I do see public safety as more important. (This does include gas drilling as it has an impact on not only our citizens lives but our air quality and water supply as well). In addition, all are concerned about how government is spending tax dollars, bringing integrirty back to city hall would be a good start for FTW, where we have $1 billion dollars worth of backlog flooding issues, a $50 million dollar budget shortfall, and $5 million “missing” dollars. Having city leaders that understand public safety, trust, and input would be a big step forward for the city and a huge benefit to the residents.

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  10. I must admit I’m disappointed with the comments on Mass-Transit.
    Simply all transit options are “subsidized by the taxpayers.” That includes our public roadways. I trust everyone knows our gasoline tax does NOT pay for those roadways? It doesn’t even come close. We’ve subsidized single person occupant motor-vehicles for a long long time… that’s obviously not going to work out much longer.

    Clyde has some good ideas, and some real points- I don’t live in FW and currently have my own topics to worry about, but this one is off the mark. While I advocate for safer and greater bicycle access, I recognize this is NOT the only “tool in the tool box”, nor is the auto mobile. Mass Transit (of all versions) must be considered- and yes Subsidized.

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  11. Please, people, read all of what I said. TXCHICK did and apparently understood my message. Okay, maybe the comment about the fun of riding a trolly was a little flip, but the issues are still the same.
    We are taliking about maintaining an existing street and highway grid and building a new parkway, and the cost of building a light rail (trolly-like) line downtown and commuter rail on existing track for regional transport, and perhaps funding something more in line with high speed rail elsewhere. We need to compare the cost per lane/passenger mile of road and the cost per passenger mile for rail and decide if we can afford either or all.
    I’ve ridden public transportation in Washington DC, Paris, Moscow, Tokyo, and others. In other than DC they built their systems to provide transportation where there was no abundance of automobiles and population centers were more compact regarding mass. Compare those cities to Fort Worth where we have approximately 350 square miles of city with very little concentration of residents in any one location.
    Buses are most effective in serving spread out communities and express buses could provide a flexible source of tranportation rivaling rail.
    Bottom line is: what will all the alternatives cost and are the taxpayers willing to fund them. Simple, no?

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  12. I'm for Clyde

    I”ve read and heard what Clyde says and I think with Clyde Picht, we’d get an open minded, transparent, ethical, fiscally responsible, caring, smart, proactive, tolerant, disciplined, honest leader. Go Clyde!

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  13. Sam

    Looking back on Clyde’s original answer on building light rail, it’s clear he’s not a big fan of the idea. In his latest comment it’s clear he also appreciates the complexity of the issue. Fort Worth and Dallas are among the worst cities in the nation for urban sprawl, and fixing the resulting transportation issues is no simple task.

    Light rail has a high initial cost and isn’t flexible. Buses at least run on existing streets, and it’s much easier to change a bus route than a rail route. Rail can only fix part of the problem. The one point where agree with Clyde 100% is that there is no simple solution.

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  14. Kay

    Who is going to ride their bike to work when it’s 100 degrees outside? Those bike racks downtown sit empty day after day so obviously all you bike people aren’t practicing what you preach. Wendy Davis never rode her bike to any meetings that I recall.
    While I don’t work a job where mass transit or car pooling will accomodate my daily travels between multiple job sites. If I tried to ride the current bus system, I would maybe work 2 hours per day and spend the rest of my time on the bus. Express bus service is great but if it is only during peak hours, I still can’t use it. This city missed out on the planning phases many years ago. No neighborhood wants the noise of many trains running alongside it daily. Are you trying to keep residents in the city or force them out? If someone would just fix the timing on the traffic signals, it would help a great deal with the pollution and large back up of vehicles.
    One other point needs to be made here. How many of you people who are complaining about air pollution still use the drive thru windows at your banks, dry cleaners and fast food or coffee shops? Lip service won’t help the problem either.

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  15. Kay,

    People ride bicycles in lots of places with weather as extreme, if not more so, than Fort Worth. Tucson, Arizona has far more bicycle ridership than Fort Worth. So does Minneapolis, and plenty of other cities with weather and other environmental challenges. Just because you don’t personally see people using bike racks doesn’t mean nobody rides their bikes in Fort Worth.

    You really have no idea if “you bike people” are practicing what we preach or not. In parts of Fort Worth that are more bicycle friendly, such as the Near Southside, there’s plenty of bike activity – a check of the racks on Magnolia most nights bears that out.

    As for trains – an effective rail transit system would absolutely keep people in the city and attract *more* residents. Just how loud do you think a light rail line or a streetcar is? Streetcars in particular are very nearly silent – and there obviously *are* neighborhoods that want their presence. Believe it or not, your car isn’t the center of the universe. The fact that Fort Worth is starting to come around to realizing that cities cannot grow forever with just car-based infrastructure is a good step forward for the city.

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  16. Bethany

    While I can agree that we need better mass transit in large cities, I cannot agree that bike trails and light rail are the answer. Older much more populated cites than any in Texas are charging more for light rail because the taxpayers cannot keep footing the bill. If you don’t own a vehicle then you are not able to choose your transit means without some cash in your pocket. Kevin is correct that there are bicycles on the Near Southside but my question would be how far did “those bicyclists” commute to get to their destination? There’s a HUGE difference between a few blocks and 10 or miles. Maybe the good folks in the Texas Legislature will pass an extra tax for bicycle registration, too? Clyde Picht is right that there’s no easy answer and since Fort Worth is taxed out unless our wonderful current Mayor breaks the tax cap, then we will all suffer – either sitting in traffic on the roads or getting second jobs to pay the tax bills.

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  17. Jim Ashford

    The subject is complex, but I don’t think light rail is the answer. Fort Worth is not dense (population wise) enough to support the expense. You still have to get in your car to drive to a pick up point, get on the light rail and then after it arrives, how do you get to your finial destination? Are you going to walk the finial 3-5 miles. If your destination is nearby, that is great, but it probably isn’t.
    Look at the cost, the time it would take to construct, consider how many roads would have to be damaged and how much eminent domain (taking of private property) would be used. The cost is far to high.
    The bicycle issue seems to be a way to get off topic. I never see anyone riding a bicycle as a means of their primary transportation ( I know there a few that do). Do I think those who use a bicycle for their transportation will use the light rail instead? No, I don’t . The bicycle is almost always used for entertainment or as a sport in this city.

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  18. There is a good discussion on different ways of thinking about public transporation here http://abeginnersguidetofreedom.blogspot.com/2009/04/niche-market-for-liberty.html.

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  19. Judy Shaw

    I agree with Clyde. I am taxed enough! I want my own paycheck. I want to do with my money what I want. My money is not yours. If the users cannot pay for it, then do not look to my checkbook. If the voters want it. Then make a plan to finance it. Work the plan and then do it. The city government was never established to finance every whim that comes into a citizens mind. None of the issues being discussed should be governments responsibility to finance. Let business come in and make a profit if possible. If it cannot carry itself economically then there are not enough people to support it and therefore there is not enough reason to lay any additional burden on my chechbook. If you want to start an organization and get people to donate to build what ever you want or desire, go for it. You do not have a right to impose your whim to become my obligation. Read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Live Free or Die. I give my money to support organizations that I believe it. Find others to support your plan if they are willing. But my City government should not take on optional little “Do Daddy” projects that require legalized theft from me.

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  20. Pete Wann

    Huh. A Libertarian screed against public transit that hits all the Libertarian applause lines… You know, the ones equating government to thinly veiled hostility, taxation to theft, and any action done for the benefit of the public as a whole as being done with a gun to the poor, defenseless taxpayer’s head.

    Bullshit.

    I get it — you think that private enterprise can do buses better. Really? Who’s going to pay to maintain the roads they run on? Who’s going to pay the cost to maintain and repair the street lights that control the flow of traffic the bus operates in? Where’s the profit in that? How much should we charge that hypothetical minimum-wage (or less, if Suzette and others have their way) earning single mom for those services? You know, the one who can barely afford the payment on the car she MUST have, let alone the gas to run it, because there’s no transit alternative besides walking? (Bikes are “just for entertainment or sport,” remember, and apparently have no claim to the roads, so they’re out.)

    While we’re at it — how much more are you willing to pay for water that’s guaranteed to be free of contaminates once we take government out of the “water business”? Is it fair that you can afford to buy the clean water from Whole Foods Water, Inc., but the aforementioned single mom (who now makes less than $5/hr. because there’s no minimum wage — the free market at work!) can only afford to give her kids water from Haliburton Water & Fried Chicken (Looks like water, smells like mama’s cookin’!)?

    What’s a fair rate to pay for fire protection? Now that we’ve disbanded the fire and police departments (gotta stop that “theft at gunpoint” taxman somehow!), what happens to the people who can’t afford a gun to protect themselves? They’re pretty much fucked, since everyone else will have one and now they can come in at will and take whatever they want. Even if guns became so cheap thanks to the lack of regulations and taxes on the manufacturers, how quickly would the arms race in our neighborhoods escalate? Eventually gangs would have armored vehicles and helicopter gunships (why should government be the only available markets for those products? FREE MARKETS, MAN!), and I suppose our only hope of stopping them would be neighborhood collectives banding together to buy bigger or better weaponry. Or maybe some kind of private militia or something, but again — who’s gonna pay, and how much will it cost?

    Here’s the deal, and here’s why Libertarians are A. Stupid and B. Deluded:

    That bird has flown, man! The cat’s out of the bag, beans are spilled, Pandora’s box is open, etc. etc. Now that government has been DONE, it can’t be UNDONE. You might be able to slowly reign it in, and I’ll agree that there’s certainly a place for that, but human beings have pretty clearly demonstrated over the last 10,000 years that when given the opportunity they will gleefully fuck over anyone and everyone in pursuit of fame, fortune, or a nice piece of fried chicken. Put a bunch of those humans in a corporation where they’re all legally protected from any consequences of their actions, and well, I think we pretty clearly see what kind of havoc they can wreak. I know I’d LOVE for my local private police corporation to do the profit/loss calculations before they respond to my breaking-and-entering call. Sounds like nirvana to me!

    Democratic (or hell, even a representative Republic) government is the only thing standing between civil society and the fucked theocracies and oppressive oligarchies of the world.

    In summary: I would welcome those who wish to “do with their money what they want” to find a place on the planet where they can do just that and go there as soon as is feasible. Let me know how that works out for you. I’ll bet you’ll be missing the no-additional-usage charge roads, the nearly free water, gasoline, natural gas, garbage collection, wastewater collection and treatment, education, police services, fire protection, building code enforcement, military protection, etc. etc. that all that “stolen” tax money pays for. If you’d close your mouths and open your brains for more than a minute, you’d realize that you don’t pay ANYWHERE NEAR the actual cost of those services — the REAL cost is spread out across all taxpayers, even those that don’t use them. (Like the 99% of the roads in this city that I don’t use, fire protection for the Marine Creek area that I don’t use, police in Haltom City that I don’t use, public schools that I don’t use, and thousands of other things that I subsidize for YOUR benefit.) The Libertarian ideal sounds great in theory, but its completely deluded perceptions of human behavior (outright naivete, actually) and frothy-mouthed faith in Laissez-faire capitalism guarantee that it’ll never happen.

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  21. JS Jones

    Typical Democrat response, nothing but a bunch of strawman arguments and ad hom attacks. Nice try Pete.

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  22. Jim

    “I am taxed enough! I want my own paycheck. I want to do with my money what I want. My money is not yours. If the users cannot pay for it, then do not look to my checkbook.”

    Don’t we all; however,
    It’s all subsidized folks. You sure didn’t drive to work on a “free roadway” this morning. And the taxes you paid as part of that $2 a gallon gasoline, that doesn’t come close to paying for that roadway either.

    Mass and alternative transportation needs to be accepted and viewed from a distance.
    A congested highway is not one that needs more lanes, its proof that a lot of people want to get from here-2-there… that’s where mass transit (light/commuter rail or rapid bus) is needed. Right there, not nearby.

    Bicycles. No, most are not going to use a bike for their primary transportation- but many will if they’re provided safe access. Nevertheless, a bus can not go to every house and a train will not go to every neighborhood. Safe access for bicycles and peds can connect those links and do so very cheaply. Its a horrid thing to see folks drive 1-2 miles to a train station!

    Are we behind? Oh yes, way behind here in DFW and way behind in Texas. Has the boat already sailed while we developed (with too little vision in the plan) badly? Sure. But other cities have made great strides, other American cities. This is Texas man, we can fix this, but sticking our head in the sand (or simply rolling up the car windows and driving along as if we don’t know) is not the answer.

    There’s a lot of troubles out there. There’s no “one fix”, but we can’t eliminate any tool in the tool box. We must become intermodal and we must be open minded. We can no longer afford (money or time) to just fight amongst ourselves and fail to move forward.

    Good luck Clyde, Louis, and Mike. One of you has a big job ahead of you. The answers and ideas are not contained in City Hall, nor on the City Council, the answers and creativity are outside those doors in your city with its citizens.
    Remember that and it could all go a great deal better.

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  23. Hello Pete,
    Well, I’m going to give a reply soon… I have to work now, but you shown a few areas where you don’t know what we’re about (us Tarrant Libertarians), some places where you misunderstand the way things have and will always work, and some areas where we can – and can’t – privatize. I’ll say that’s our fault for not bringing you the facts up front.

    We work from a standpoint of logic and have a philosophical foundation that is unwavering… And would help the poor of Fort Worth, at least those that want to improve their lot, more than any ‘progressive’ scheme ever hatched.

    More later from me… I’ll go point by point down your rant and point out facts, fictions and misconceptions.
    John

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  24. David AKA Rico

    It is very important to remember that we are not necessarily addressing the transportation needs of today, but rather anticipating those of a decade hence. With the level of growth currently occurring in Fort Worth, how long until the existing roads are completely saturated? Are new rail lines more expensive in the long term than expanding ALL of our highway infrastructure? Are there more eminent domain issues with rail lines than with widening the freeways? I saw a significant increase in ridership on the TRE when gas prices rose. Should we wait until gas prices rise again to begin addressing these issues?

    @Jim
    Very well stated.

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  25. Pete wow, such anger. All that time typing and you appear to have absolutely no idea what the Libertarian Party is about. I guess just what you have heard from friends.
    Sad. There is a difference between a pure Libertarian Philosophy and the Libertarian Party.
    I think the best part of your rant would be this:

    “You might be able to slowly reign it in, and I’ll agree that there’s certainly a place for that”

    There is only one party that can slowly reign in what’s going on, and that’s us.

    If we don’t break the DEM/REP two party Monopoly, then we are all screwed.

    The LP now is most about just trying to say, hold on there a second, do we really need this or is this just another public work to cost the Tax Payer to benefit developers. Which is usually the case.

    You should read up on what the Libertarian Party is really about, and stop getting us confused with Anarchists.

    Also, you might want to relax a bit, before you blow a gasket.

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  26. Todd Owens

    To Pete Wann:

    Huh. A Socialist rant against real freedom that hits all the populist demagogue talking points … You know, the ones about excusing government power to do “more”, guaranteeing government revenue sources (government has a right to be funded doncha know), and overlooking the moral hazards of using the force of government to feather the nest of those already in power. Did I miss a canard of the left?

    Now there’s your bullshit.

    On public transit I personally happen to see both sides of this — I think that the advantages (scale of economy, coordinated planning) of government funding of public roads / transit CAN (not must) outweigh the advantages of allowing private enterprise to do it. This is only true if transportation is wholly funded by directed consumption taxes and user fees. Apparently you can only see the mythical minimum wage mom who you think has a right to public transit, when no such right exists.

    You also rail against private, market solutions to services traditionally provided by local governments. What you fail to recognize is that there is a basic human value in freedom and choice. Now there’s your dignity. If we just presuppose that local government should always do everything in every local jurisdiction, then we give up our freedoms and choices preemptively. I personally would like to see these questions raised at least every ten years if not more often. Is there a better way now? Has it ever really been better to give up freedom and suborn personal responsibility in all these areas?

    Here’s the real deal, and here’s why Socialists are immoral and mere defenders of the status quo:

    Government can be “undone”, and frankly much of it should be. In line with your own vulgar and weak anthropological assessment, government is nothing more than a bunch of powerful human actors empowered with the legitimate ability to use force. This is much more sinister and potentially dangerous than corporations and you are naive to think otherwise. People in corporations are not legally protected from consequences of their actions; they are merely shielded from certain risks. But this is of much less consequence than an overly empowered, unresponsive, unmaintainable government behemoth. Government should protect our contracts and aspire to do little more. Yet as we know people in power seek more power and you let them. Why?

    Don’t confuse freedom with anarchy. It is not democratic socialism that protects us from the tyrannies of monarchy, theocracy or itself; instead it is our constitution and the republican form of government defined therein. We are not a democracy and we can all thank our founders for that.

    Mr. Wann, I was lucky enough to inherit citizenship in this country and it is a place where you and I still (mostly) can do with our money what we want. It is people like you who want to continuously nibble away at that legacy, corrupting it, instead of moving to some place like Sweden or China. Let me know how that works out for you.

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  27. Pete Wann

    I’m a fast typist, so when I get rolling it doesn’t take me long to get that stuff out.

    I appreciate those of you assuming that I don’t know what I’m talking about because I disagree with your preferred position — that’s really nice of you.

    I also am grateful that because I have the balls to state the inherent flaws in the Libertarian Utopia I’m automatically branded a Socialist. I especially like how Todd wrapped himself in the flag there at the end of his comment and invited me (a fellow citizen of the United States) to kindly fuck off if I didn’t like his twisted vision of what our country should be. Yeah, I essentially did the same thing in my comment, but Libertarians have actually started an organization in which people agree to voluntarily move somewhere in the US and completely take over the government (legally). Last I heard they were looking at Vermont, but I also seem to recall that Vermonters weren’t too happy about the idea.

    I’m all for the idea, and I’d truly like to see how the experiment works out. I happen to know how the experiment has worked out in Sweden — it’s home to a few of the worlds wealthiest people (oppressive, anti-entrepreneurial bastards!), highest quality of life (even though everyone apparently lives in poverty due to high taxes), and longest life expectancies in the western world (see how BAD socialized medicine is for you!?!). Equating Sweden with China demonstrates your ignorance of what Socialism is and is not.

    Since my time is limited, I’ll limit my additional comments to this: Who at Union Carbide was sentenced to jail or punished for poisoning thousands of people in Bhopal, India? Which BP executives faced criminal manslaughter charges for the deaths of 15 people in Texas City? Sure, governments can, do, and always will abuse their power, but to say that corporations are in any way more accountable or less likely to do so is again, naive.

    Here’s the thing, and I suppose it’s what I don’t get about Libertarians’ hatred of government — You refer to government as “a bunch of powerful human actors empowered with the legitimate ability to use force,” but you completely ignore the fact that WE THE PEOPLE gave them that power. It says so right there in the Constitution. Our founders understood that we humans, even acting as “free men,” needed a system of government to protect the weak among us and to keep things working in a fair and orderly fashion. Or maybe that’s just my weak anthropological assessment again.

    Todd, I’d like to know what you see as a citizen’s “rights.” Is it truly just Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness? Without government to guarantee those rights for everyone, that’s a recipe for anarchy and all of the thuggery I described in my initial comment.

    To our visitors from the “official” Libertarian Party, I welcome you to enlighten me. At one point I considered myself somewhat of a Libertarian, but then Pat Buchanan started talking about all kinds of crazy religious stuff and I lost interest. Show me how your way is better. (If you’d like to write a guest post for W&C, send me an email.)

    Lastly, since this discussion is WAY off the original topic of this post, I’d appreciate it if we could move it to EightOneSeven, a more appropriate outlet.

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  28. JS Jones

    “…but human beings have pretty clearly demonstrated over the last 10,000 years that when given the opportunity they will gleefully fuck over anyone and everyone in pursuit of fame, fortune, or a nice piece of fried chicken”

    So I guess you are ready to burn your voter registration card, Pete? After all, why should you, a human being (I presume), be allowed to decide what other corrupt fker to put in office?

    Oh, wait, I forgot the elitist left mentality, YOU, naturally, aren’t speaking of yourself when you yammer on about the corrupt and greedy human species.

    -JSJ

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  29. James

    Pete, lets make a link to the actual topic in EightOneSeven, so people can go to the direct discussion, because I believe this is getting quite interesting.
    I am at work so I dont have the time to get all lengthy here but…
    “…the inherent flaws in the Libertarian Utopia I’m automatically branded a Socialist.”
    No the reason why you were branded as a socialist isnt because you disagreed with the Libertarian philosophy it is because you are a socialist.
    I am not going to, at this moment atleast, discuss the problems with socialism (or democracy for that matter)
    but how would you not consider yourself a socialist.
    If you believe in
    a. taxing a group of individuals for the benefit of another
    b. socialized medicine (i could be wrong about your stance on this, so apologies if I am wrong)
    c. believe the government needs to run and operate services that should be left to the private sector.

    I am not saying there isnt good intentions and I am not even saying the ideas are wrong. I am just saying that is socialism. You can claim it is something else but that is like saying Republicans support the idea of a republic and not a democracy.

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  30. Pete,
    I think what we should be looking at is this:

    We already have a rail system operating just south of downton, running into Dallas. I’ve used it several times.
    We already have a bus system. I’ve used it a couple of times.

    It’s fun to have a bus or a train all to oneself. Clyde is correct. The buses run erratically, and the trains function as a trolley-ride novelty.

    I’ve done the same in places like NYC and Toronto, where public transportation is more fully utilized. In addition to the greater population density, the difference is in zoning. In those cities, people can operate true neighborhood grocery stores, convenience stores, barber shops, etc etc etc.

    How much regulatory B.S. would someone have to go through to do the same in a typical Mira Vista etc neighborhood? It’ll never happen. How about in a TCU neighborhood, somewhere on a residential corner. Nope. Zoned residential, regardless of the profit potential or the (ahem) savings to the environment.

    How do the current FW City Council members feel about the Southwest Parkway Toll Road project, a possible recipient of another jillion dollars in porkulus funds? Granted, it will allow the minimum wage single moms of Mira Vista to make quicker trips to downtown and back.

    How do the current FW City Council members feel about what FW Weekly called The Taj Mahal On The Trinity, Tarrant County Community College’s massive new monument to itself? (Conveniently located in the 18-20 year old Junior College residential hotbed of downtown Fort Worth….) Do you really want to pump more money into that boondoggle?

    Or how about the produce market boondoggle that they opened around the downtown rail station? Does anyone ever mention it? Or even remember it? Well, you paid for it.

    What’s that empty retail shell on the east side of North Main between downtown and the stockyards? Didn’t we pump a bunch of public money into that thing in the hopes someone could privatize the profit while socializing the risk? You’re still paying for it.

    George W. Bush’s Ballpark In Arlington? Anyone still proud of that one?
    The taxpayer funded monument to Jerry Jones now rising in Arlington? (Hint of things to come: look how many retailers are dying around the ballpark)

    The constitution gives government the right (and responsibility) to build roads. Doesn’t say much about education, retail development, streetcars, ballparks, or farmers markets.
    But in east Fort Worth, we have potholes and cracks in the roads that (seriously) make them unsafe for bicyclists and runners.

    What is it, exactly, that makes you think they could build and operate a damn subway?

    Your friend you’ve never met,

    Allen

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  31. Governments tend to favor the privileged and the powerful. Supporting a bigger government at any level is supporting what I call Political Darwinism — survival of the biggest campaign contributor.

    A vote for more government is a vote against the poor, labor, taxpayers, small business, and consumers, and shows a callous lack of compassion.

    Jeff Daiell http://www.JeffDaiell.com

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  32. David AKA Rico

    [quote]the trains function as a trolley-ride novelty. [/quote]

    @TWS
    Perhaps you need to ride the train at rush hour. I commuted by train every weekday for 2 months from T&P to Union Station (after gas prices dropped below $2) and it is rare to have an empty seat beside you. While I agree with you on many (actually most) of your points, I think your opinion of the trains is based on incomplete information.

    Also, I, for one, appreciate the civil tone you exhibited. Name calling and insults belong in the school yard, not in an intelligent debate or exchange of ideas.

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  33. To: David AKA Rico,

    I’ll admit to riding during off-peak hours. Will try it again soon.

    Pete and I go waaaaay back. In internet years, anyway.

    Allen

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  34. OK – back from earning money by working and spreading the wealth around by spending some time at dinner with the wife and -ahhhhh – watching the “The Office” on DVR. So, Pete, I’ll take on your commentary, point by point, to show you the libertarian take on each. Put your thinking cap on:

    First of all, we have a philosophy. Unlike most of the other parties or movements, or other ‘isms’, we never change in our belief that: “You own yourself. You own your body, your life, and any property that you obtained without fraud or coersion. Since you don’t own me, or any fraction of me (and I don’t own any portion of you), we both, as individuals, should be able to do with ourselves and our properties as we choose, provided that you don’t interfere in the equal rights of others.” That’s the big one…

    We DO believe in government, though. We’re not anarchist and believe that there is a place for government. For example, we believe that government should be in the business of the following: 1) Defending us from foreign attack; 2) Enforcing contracts and laws protecting the innocent from fraud, theft and coersion – like robbery; 3) Some infrastructure. Yes, Post Roads are allowable per the US Constitution, for example, laying the foundation for funding similar modern infrastructure (water, sewer, certain electric/communications commons. So, jumping ahead, that should answer your ‘who’ll maintain the roads that these PRIVATE BUSES would run on?’ question.
    ================================

    “You know, the ones equating government to thinly veiled hostility, taxation to theft..”
    —-Generally, governing anyone, even our ‘acceptable version’, in order to provide those services mentioned above must utilize the use either force, or threat of force. Defending ourselves: Force needed, but not in a pre-emptive manner used these days. Enforcing contracts – well, if one side’s not living up to the terms of their contract, then force may be used.
    ==============================
    — Regarding minimum wage. If you think about it on surface levels or or use an appeal to sympathy by creating the ’single mom with no car’ character (yes, I know there are single mom’s with kids)… the minimum wage seems necessary. However, and Pete, I took some economics courses at TCU (isn’t that where you work?) and can tell you that minimum wages HURT the truly needy, creates unemployment – but does help Unions, since that’s what they use as a basis for wage increases. BTW, wage increases mean dues increases means Union bosses’ bonus increases. Don’t believe me? Check out this…. I know it’s a wiki!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_minimum_wages and then compare that to this: http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/state_unemployment/index.html

    I didn’t even have to pay tens of thousands of dollars to TCU to figure out that the map above that shows that the highest minimum wages correlate, not closely, but almost perfectly with the states with the highest minimum wages.

    Back to, let’s call her Jane Dough, chances are slim that she’s working minimum wage. In fact, a 2000 Bureau of Labor report (best I could do) showed that 3.5% of household heads who worked more than 27 weeks of the year had minimum wage jobs. However, increases in minimum wage rates actually create job LOSSES for minority teens, people who you think might benefit from ‘minimum wages’.

    If she didn’t live close enough to bike to work then she could take the privately run bus to work. By the way, I don’t see anything unlibertarian with regards to bikes having ‘claims to the road’, especially if there are bike lanes.
    ========================================

    “While we’re at it — how much more are you willing to pay for water that’s guaranteed to be free of contaminates once we take government out of the “water business”? ”
    —– I’m willing to pay market rates. However, since we’d have a contract with the water company who has won their contract by competitive bid for the business with stringent quality standards to maintain the contract, I’d get the highest quality water at the lowest prices. Thousands of communities already enjoy low priced, high quality water in the United States right now via this method.

    “Is it fair that I can buy clean water from Whole Foods…”
    —-Very GOOD! I guess you’re familiar with John Mackey – the founder of Whole Foods who is also a libertarian.

    … “but the aforementioned single mom (who now makes less than $5/hr. because there’s no minimum wage — the free market at work!) can only afford to give her kids water from Haliburton Water & Fried Chicken (Looks like water, smells like mama’s cookin’!)?”
    —-Weren’t you the one making the shamey-finger motion to somebody for playing to the ‘libertarian applause lines’? Then I shame you back for shamelessly pushing the “APPLAUSE” sign button that lights up at the Lake Woebegon Civic Center Auditorium by invoking Halliburton, fried chicken and particulate matter in drinking water in the same sentence.

    Since you brought up Halliburton, that’s not our type of company either since it relies upon the sponsorship of our government’s pre-emptive wars of aggression to clean up what they paid to blow up. Of course, a little ad-hominem there myself, but we can probaby agree that Halliburton is generally not ‘our kinda place’. If they were simply an oil field services company, that’s one thing…
    ==============================================

    —–Re: your comments of Fire Depts and Police Depts. As a libertarian, I don’t have a problem with a publicly funded Fire Dept. Since our Federal Government’s job one is to protect us from foreign invasion, a parallel can be drawn with the FD on the local level. Paying professionals to keep fire at bay and off my property is OK. Having paid professionals staffing my publicly funded Water Park isn’t. (Yes, there are several CITY Water Parks!!).

    Also remember that we agree that enforcing laws protecting the innocent from things like murder, rape, robbery, fraud…. Police are instrumental there. So Cops are fine.
    ======================================

    “Even if guns became so cheap thanks to the lack of regulations and taxes on the manufacturers, how quickly would the arms race in our neighborhoods escalate?”
    —-True, the regulations do cause ‘hood arms races to escalate, but not in the way your describing. Due to our country’s century old ‘War on Drugs’, gangs build up their arsenal to defend their profitable turf. We libertarians don’t advocate drug usage obviously, but whenever you prohibit ANYTHING, whether booze, stag films, cigs or drugs; black markets ALWAYS pop up. Due to the very real risk of imprisonment or worse – murder by other dealers and gangs, the prices rise, profits rise and gun shot wounds rise.

    If you can invoke Sweden in a later comment, I can invoke Switzerland now. Switzerland has an extremely high gun ownership rate. They also have decriminalized pot and medicalized harder drugs. Guess what their crime rates are. Yep. Low.
    ====================================

    “Here’s the deal, and here’s why Libertarians are A. Stupid and B. Deluded:”
    —–I’m not stupid. Again, I graduated from your employer and current school, so I’m probably bright enough to do that. I’m not deluded either.

    “You might be able to slowly reign it in, and I’ll agree that there’s certainly a place for that, but human beings have pretty clearly demonstrated over the last 10,000 years that when given the opportunity they will gleefully fuck over anyone and everyone in pursuit of fame, fortune, or a nice piece of fried chicken”
    —-There you go with the ‘fried chicken’ again (applause applause). And yes, I’d like to either slowly, or even more quickly, rein it in. Interesting how you used “reign” as in ‘to lord over someone’ vs. ‘rein’ like ‘to rein in a horse to make it go slower’. Just a Marxian slip, I’m sure.

    And your ‘bird has flown’ argument basically says, “Since people have been cruel to each other to gain power or riches in the past, there’s NO reason to use reason, justice, unfettered freedom of choice in trade and personal freedom to ensure peace and prosperity for all (100 percent) citizens who would care to take initiative for their own benefit.” Another implication is since warring for profit and citizen’s ‘voting themselves the treasury’ is ‘out of the toothpaste tube – wulp, cain’t do nuttin’ bout that now.

    It’s true, we’ve had caesars, pharaohs and tyrants who have terrorized their subjects for power and fortune. Marxist dictators who have killed tens of millions in the name of equality. We’ve had fascist dictators who have killed tens of millions in the name of ‘group unity’. Just because those birds have flown, doesn’t mean I can’t aim to shoot it down – now and in the future.

    If you’re comment is more anti-capitalism, than a more macro take…. If a person screws somebody for profit or chicken, if they’ve used coersion, neglect, fraud, or just plain evil and caused harm by polluting, infringing my rights, lowering my home value, scamming me outta my hard earned cash money, then they should PAY TO CLEAN IT UP, PAY ME BACK and pay their debt to society in the pokey… but not lifting weights or watching TV, but by sewing shirts for The Gap or something that makes it less of an incentive to choose crime – AND allows those of lesser means a way to pay back their victims.
    ======================================

    “Democratic (or hell, even a representative Republic) government is the only thing standing between civil society and the fucked theocracies and oppressive oligarchies of the world.”
    —-A total democratic process frequently leads to a ‘tyranny of the majority’. Think Jim Crow Laws or why gays can’t marry in California. Representative Republic is much better, but sadly we keep sliding back to the tyranny of the majority. And before this gets thrown out there. We’re still not all that ‘Democratic’ – I KNOW. I mean, ultimately, our current POTUS was put there by an Electoral College and not direct vote.
    ===============================

    “In summary: I would welcome those who wish to “do with their money what they want” to find a place on the planet where they can do just that and go there as soon as is feasible. Let me know how that works out for you.”
    — Well, again, I’ll go back to Switzerland as an ‘OK’ idea of a kinda-libertarian place. They know that your right to privacy is a right, after all, and they’re fairly protective of their citizens’ right to privacy. Like I said, every house almost has a gun. That’s libertarian. Keeps crime LOW. How everybody gets their gun is less libertarian. A draft. Everyone is drafted (akin to slavery in my estimation), you go through a several month training camp. Taught how to use your weapon. At the end, you can either re-enlist or not. Either way, you keep your gun. Also, their currency – although not as much recently – has gold to back a measurable portion of it. They didn’t join in the EU fun and as a result, they’ve enjoyed a better economy than their neighbors who’s economies are backed in Euros. You remember what I said about their drug policies. Gays get to marry or not (why is that even a state function??)…. Also, the skiing is awesome.

    Here’s the real test. Recently, in Central America, countries who are frustrated with their governments have recently elected numerous officials in Costa Rica AND ELECTED A NEW LIBETARIAN PRESIDENT of Panama!! This will be interesting over the next few years to see if our little petrie dishes to the South will produce some positive results and hopefully kill off the remaining bacteria of socialism.

    ” I’ll bet you’ll be missing the no-additional-usage charge roads, the nearly free water, gasoline, natural gas, garbage collection, wastewater collection and treatment, education, police services, fire protection, building code enforcement, military protection, etc. etc”
    —-With the exception of ‘additional usage charge’ roads, and the fact that water isn’t close to free nor gas… everything else could be provided by government in a libertarian society.
    ==================================

    “If you’d close your mouths and open your brains for more than a minute, you’d realize that you don’t pay ANYWHERE NEAR the actual cost of those services — the REAL cost is spread out across all taxpayers, even those that don’t use them”
    —–The actual cost for me to build (or rent time on) a private highway, hire an army, build a sewage pipeline, true it’s beyond my abilities. However, AGAIN – We’re MINI-ARCHISTS not anarchists. But in case you live in Marine Creek and “summer in Haltom City”, then you shouldn’t be paying for those services. Those towns’ citizens pay for their own fire and crime protection. If you’re a Fort Wortherner, and set yourself on fire at a protest in Marine Creek, true you do receive a positive externality if they put you out. If you’re mugged there, Haltom’s Finest should be there to assist you, find the culprit and bring them to justice. Again, an externality even I, a cold hearted Libertarian, could live with.

    “The Libertarian ideal sounds great in theory”
    … thank you!
    ============================
    “… naievity…”
    —–OK, true. Folks have been sucklling on the teats of Uncle Sam (ewww) for so loong, that we all make little piggy noises when a new improved Uncle promises more slop. However, I truly think that we are honest about our beliefs and would not be surprised at all if WHEN we take a cue from our little neighbors to the South, that we find our general tide rising to meet all of the millions of individual boats that are actually levitating against the predictions of shipwrecks thrown out by those who ‘know better’.

    “frothy mouthed, Laissez-Faire Capitalism…”
    —-True. We haven’t had free markets forever. Since the advent of the ‘Corporation as Individual’, we’ve had governments hand in our affairs causing every bubble and burst…. However, snide commentary aside, it is truly because I care for those who are poor and economically crippled by their government – that I do what I’m doing. Because, I care about those folks, I really want help to get to those who truly need help the most, and I want the help to get to them as quickly, effectively, and efficiently as possible. Putting the ‘invisible reins’ on private charities and throwing our money by the pitchfork-full into the furnaces of ‘multi-million employee bureaucracies’ is the wrong way to do it. I’m going to do everything in my ability to make sure that resources aren’t taken from the productive to reward the unproductive, whether ’slacker’ or General Motors; to make sure that corporate criminals who harm others by neglegance, go to prison for a long time and are disgorged of profits and given to the victims of their crimes (I read ahead about Bhopal); I want people to be able to live their lives as they please and not infringing upon the equal rights of other. I’m going to do it and I’d love any of your readers to send me an email to chair@tarrantlp.org to ask me how.

    Like I said, I read below and saw you wrote more… Ugh. I don’t type as fast as you. This ’screed’ took me about an hour and a half to give verifiable and substantive retorts to your strawman/ad-hominem attacks from earlier. So, I likely won’t do much replying back on this post.

    Lastly, using coarse language in this forum is your right, but ech… coarse. They call it an F-Bomb for a reason. Like an A-Bomb or H-Bomb, you need to use them judiciously… that’s when people know your serious about something.

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  35. Oooh. For a guy who hates it so much, I don’t know how to spell it. Coercion. Really seems like there should be an ’s’ in there.

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  36. OK – so my rant was long and has been awaiting moderation for a while – and I know it’s late too, so plenty o’ slack is cut. But currently, my post regarding my mispelling apparently is showing up, I hit a karma button on my ‘awaiting’ comment and it appeared to work.

    Just curious… anything I’m doing wrong?

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  37. Well, I’m assuming the notice saying that my remarks are STILL awaiting moderation… you can find my reply to Wann here: http://thoughtsfromthetclpchair.blogspot.com/

    Thanks,
    John Spivey

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  38. Clyde has my vote for mayor! He tells it like it is and that’s what I like best about the man.

    Goodness – I had to just skim much of these lengthy posts and I guess, the main comment I’d like to make is about the light rail. I’m no expert, but I have read that something of that scale would take at least a decade to become reality. When light rail really becomes THE issue, instead of falling in the Barnett Shale shadow, there will be an uber amount of meetings necessary in planning, designing, and on and on. If that’s the case, I can think of real current issues, like gas drilling safety (not to mention the jillions of gallons of water used to frac without being recycled), higher taxes, voters getting a voice, street/drainage repairs, ethical gov’t conduct…you get my point. As far as light rail goes, with the extensive amount of time it will take to even get this off the ground, we could have voted a handful of different people in and out of the mayor’s office.

    I hate to say it, but my mom has been wanting us to ride the TRE for “fun.” We haven’t yet, but I hope to at some point, since I don’t need to ride it for utility transit to/from my job.

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