1. Ann

   Kevin, do you see many families with kids living in the urban core? I know I think it would be cool to live in an urban environment but it does not seem as kid friendly. I picture other residents getting irritated at kids cramping their style and feeling unwanted as a family. Not sure I could ever talk my husband into it at all but I’d be interested to hear from people with kids living in a more urban setting.

   Jun 27th, 2008

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2. John Peter Smith

   Until there is substantial improvement in the rotten FWISD (not likely) families with child-age children will continue to flee to the outlying areas where the schools are better. While it might be cool to live in an urban environment, people are not going to pay $300,000+ for a small townhome just to send their kids to underperforming schools.

   Jun 27th, 2008

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3. brandon

   JPS,

   You might want to do some research. Many FWISD schools close-in are highly regarded. I’m in the market for a good elementary school so that is what I’m most familiar with, and you’d be hard pressed to do better than Lily B. Clayton or Charles Nash elementary schools, and there are plenty of others. These schools are or have been rated exemplary over the last few years, and those ratings have been backed up by personal opinions I have gathered in the course of deciding where to move. Even Terrell (near the projects) is exemplary, and I’m sure there is an interesting story behind that. I believe the Hi-Mount schools are well-thought of as well.

   As far as “fleeing to outlying areas” to find better schools, I’ll tell you that the quality of suburb school districts is transient. When I was in school, Arlington schools were among the best in the Metroplex. Not anymore. Ditto for Mansfield. Just a couple of years ago, Crowley ISD had good schools. Then came the people. I live within the Crowley ISD right now, and as my daughter rapidly approaches school age, I’m looking to get out amidst concerns of exploding student teacher ratios and an inability to build infrastructure at the pace of demand. Where should I go? Aledo? They’ll be facing the same problem soon, heck they already are. How far out will people have to go next (assuming they can’t afford Southlake, which is safe to say)? And how long will their commute be? As for me, I’m looking inward.

   It is a convenient old saw that inner city schools underperform. But I have high standards, have done some research, and I can tell you that it is not true for FW. In fact, FW should make the quality of its inner city schools a point of emphasis when encouraging urban revitalization. What I have personally seen is an unusually high level of parent involvement, good teachers, relatively stable populations (and therefore stable student teacher ratios), and school ratings that you would expect as a result.

   You’re opinions are often contrary (relative to the discourse on this website), but usually 100% accurate, so it was a real surprise to see you offer up something so wrong.

   Jun 27th, 2008

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4. Kevin

   Brandon, thanks for your personal experience. I have also heard many great things about many of Fort Worth’s inner-city schools.

   I’m of the opinion that an urban environment is better for kids than the suburbs in many ways. Being so dependent on the car, kids have a dead zone between when they are very small and before they get their driver’s license, where they are developing as humans but must depend on the parents for everything. They have no ability to get around on their own, no way to develop a strong sense of self as an independent being moving through civilization. Where before in urban environments (and remember that “urban” doesn’t mean just downtown-type environments) kids could easily walk or bike down the street to school, the park, the ballfield, the corner store - now mom and dad must be chauffeurs, and kids either sit around at home playing video games or must be driven to the ballfield for closely-scrutinized play that must be rigorously pre-planned (no more spontaneous pick-up games with the neighborhood kids). Little exercise, little sense of self determination which is important to developing human beings.

   There’s a lot to this topic - a great recent discussion was had a few episodes back on James Howard Kunstler’s podcast (www.kunstlercast.com). I’ve got to run, but I’d love to write about this topic more later.

   Jun 27th, 2008

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5. peteg

   Here in San Francisco that’s just how families live. Plenty of other cities too. I agree with Kevin, it’s a great way for a child to grow up instead of the smothering doldrums of suburbia. The suburbian way of life will be a relic of the fossil fuel age, the same way homesteading doesn’t exist anymore.

   Jun 27th, 2008

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6. John

   Wow, FW hit 700 K population. I wish we were still at 500,000 when I was i high school. With that comes some responsibility by city leaders. The ultra light rail should be top priority, while other issues such as zoning and containing urban sprawl should be up there. Developers should have to pay for roads within and around new subdivisions (just like my father does in Frisco).

   Gas drilling should be done more responsibly b/c in 20 years, this place may look like a west Texas oil field. Our city leaders, especially Mikey, should step up (like Joel Burns) and DO something.

   As far as the school comments above, I live in Ryan Place and will be moving to Fairmount. I have no problem raising my future child in this environment. I went to Paschal, and my kid will probably go there as well.

   Thanks for the information W and C and keep it up!

   Jun 27th, 2008

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7. Steve-O

   My two cents on the schools issue.

   I’m a believer in public schools, but I wasn’t always. Before my daughter started school, I asked a minister I knew and respected about good private schools, and he encouraged me to put my daughter in public school. “I know you and I know your daughter, and she will get a good education wherever she goes to school. But public schools will be better because of people like you being there.” So we put her in public school.

   Still, when we moved back to Fort Worth from Northeast Tarrant because we couldn’t freaking stand it there anymore, we moved here believing that the advantages of urban living would outweigh any deficiencies in the school system. Our hopes weren’t very high.

   So we were surprised when the minority-majority, economically disadvantaged elementary school in Fort Worth was actually more rigorous than the highly regarded, mostly white school in the ‘burbs that my daughter had been attending. I was pleasantly surprised at the quality of the teachers and the leadership.

   Now, I know that any large urban district is going to have problems more problems than smaller ISDs and FWISD certainly has plenty of problems. But I believe a child can easily get a bad education at good school and vice versa. I know a kid at MIT who was a product of the much-maligned Dallas ISD that proves that out.

   There are plenty of good things going on in the FWISD. I haven’t regretted the move and neither has my daughter. We love Fort Worth and I would hope that someone who really wanted to live in the urban core wouldn’t be scared off by the allegedly inferior schools. There are plenty of good ones. Ask around and do your research.

   Jun 27th, 2008

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8. Ann

   I had not even thought of the school question… I agree with Steve that with involved parents a child can get a good education even in a not so good school. I have friends who have taken advantage of all the options available in Fort Worth as far as education is concerned and made them work for their families. I too have an awesome example of a family member who attended public schools that were not considered all that good in San Diego CA and now is a graduate of Harvard Medical School. Her mother was a very hard working involved parent throughout her education.

   My thinking was more that the majority of those living in a more urban/downtown area would be younger without kids or older without kids and that they may not tolerate the “energy” kids sometimes bring. I know moving my kids to a more urban setting with neighbors in closer proximity would be an adjustment. I do like the idea of kids being more self reliant and not spending our days in the car going from place to place. Those ideas remind me of an article I read about Free Range Kids. There is a website about it too. http://www.freerangekids.com

   Jun 28th, 2008

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9. peteg

   Hey Ann, how about the 2 am energy of some just-out-of-college, fat-walleted, beer-swilling landmen on pay-day? I can testify to an overabundance of that kind of energy in an apartment complex in downtown Fort Worth.
   Humans are social creatures and learn to adjust to the current living conditions. Suburbia is pretty much a distinctly American thing since WWII, 6 billion other people on this planet live in all manners of proximity to energetic children, as they have for tens of thousands of years.

   What do you think people do in Tokyo or Hong Kong?

   Jun 28th, 2008

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10. texfana

    FWISD certainly has its problems but I think there is a lot of good going on out there. There are options for parents who choose to look for them. Have you heard of Alice Carlson, Riverside Applied Learning, ALA, the various Montessori schools, etc.? My kids are getting a private-school education on my tax dollars although we give up the community-building benefits of attending the neighborhood school. We carpool with other families to reduce the driving to and fro.
    I’m just saying that there are alternatives out there that do not include moving to suburban hell or paying an arm and a leg to send your kids to a private school. There are good kids, good parents and good teachers at each of the FWISD schools and we all have to work to keep it that way.
    by the way, can we cap it at 700,000? I think FW has gotten too big already.

    Jun 28th, 2008

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11. Ben

    Energy kids, I like it! Applies to both Pete & Ann’s example. Good thing for the Barnett Shale, otherwise the fancy condos & apartments would be filled with empty nesters from Arlington looking for restaurants that open @ 4. Can’t be much different from the dot com kids that live in NoCal, except that ours have more disposable income & aren’t as fastidious about our living spaces.

    Jun 29th, 2008

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12. John Peter Smith

    Admittedly my comments painted the FWISD with a broad brush. However, the context of the article was the city as whole, not particular neighborhoods. I’m sure there are some good schools in FW and I’m glad some of you have found them. However, a quick look at the Texas Education Agency website shows just 3 FWISD schools rated “exemplary” with another 16 rated “recognized”. FWISD has 82 schools ranked “acceptable” and 15 “unacceptable.” So clearly the exceptional schools mentioned here are not the norm for the district as a whole. Also I noticed than no one mentioned any FWISD middle schools or high schools. With good reason it appears, as the best they can manage are “acceptable” ratings with a number of them “unacceptable.”

    I agree with Ann, involved parents can see that their child gets a good education even in a not so good school. That’s what friends that are public school teachers have told me as well. I would suggest that the main difference between some of the good schools mentioned and the district as a whole is parental involvement. Upper-income parents tend to be more involved in their kids education and put more of an emphasis on it.

    Brandon:
    I can honestly say that I agree with you and sympathize with you. Years ago we moved into the Crowley ISD prior to our oldest starting Kindergarten. What a disappointment. When she was in the fifth grade I met with her teacher to express some concerns about the lack of educational progress. After 6 weeks of school they had yet to open their science book. The teacher told me, “Well Mr. Smith, we haven’t had time for science yet, we’ve done our All About Me Project (a feel-good self-esteem thing) and talked about friendship, but don’t worry we’ll get to science.” Somehow I doubt the Chinese and Indians spend six weeks of their science classes on stuff like that. I suggested to the principal that some solid academic achievements might do more for the kid’s self-image than their “I’m special, you’re special, were all special” pop-psychology. He looked at me like I was from another planet. My kids enrolled in private school the next year. With that explanation, I wish my post had said “where the schools are perceived to be better.”

    But for a homebuyer, often times perception is what matters most. Drive out to the suburbs and look at the signs and pick up the marketing materials the new homebuilders pass out. Then let me ask any of you this. When is the last time you saw a developer touting that his project was in the Fort Worth ISD?

    Jun 29th, 2008

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13. Dan

    My wife taught in one of the “better” suburbs before we moved into the urban core. Given what I saw, I would have to rate Pascal or the local private schools above the suburban school districts. Accessibility to these schools is one of the reasons why moved.

    Jun 29th, 2008

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14. brandon

    JPS,

    Your story is very disappointing to hear, but dovetails well with stories that I’ve heard about Dallas Park, where my child would be attending if we stuck around. Why, in spite of your experience, do you hold suburb schools in high regard?

    To me the lessons that I have learned from my experience are (1) Cast a dubious eye towards the latest fad suburb touting great schools, because once people start flooding over there, the quality vaporizes, and (2) Targeting a highly rated ISD to move into is not due-diligence: you need to *personally* look at the *specific* schools your children will attend.

    As to your closing question, I don’t know. For me, there are so many reasons to move inward, that I don’t need a barker on the street corner to sell me on the schools. I think it is the developers of massive suburb projects where nothing tends to stand out who need to tout such things. Also, since there isn’t much of that type of development going on within the inner core of the city, there isn’t much opportunity to see developers touting schools anyway. Most new large scale construction in the city core isn’t targeting families. Who knows, but even if nobody is touting the quality of FW schools, it doesn’t change what I’ve seen.

    “…for a homebuyer, often times perception is what matters most.”? That’s fine, they’ll make the same mistake I did. But I’ve chosen to learn from mine. My homebuilder and developer sold me a Crowley ISD bill of goods that simply is not there. And it won’t happen to me again.

    And whoever stole my karma, may you get a flat tire.

    Jun 30th, 2008

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15. Ross

    Ann – In my experience, kids and families are not only tolerated in urban neighborhoods, they are treasured. I think most, if not all, of the current residents of the urban core would welcome more families with school age children.

    And regarding schools, does anybody think that “good schools” is really just code for “lily white.” Another poster mentioned Clayton and Nash. These are good elementary schools by any measure. Yet in the last six months I know of two families that were considering a move to an urban neighborhood from NE Tarrant but decided against it after visiting both these schools and a few others while still in session. Later on I found out that both couples were “turned off” by the ethnic make-up of the student populations. I got curious and found out that Clayton and Nash are only about half white. The horror. I mean, everybody knows that all the kids from Mistletoe Heights join gangs by the time they’re twelve.

    This is obviously anecdotal, but I think it does demonstrate the notion that it takes a certain mindset to live in an urban environment, and that certain types of people won’t move into this environment regardless of school performance.

    Jun 30th, 2008

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16. Sarah

    People (and by people I mean family) constantly harangue my husband and I to look for houses in Keller because of the school district (and we don’t even have kids yet). I always tell them that if all the young people flee the city the minute they have a child, the school district will never improve, but the only response I get is “well don’t sacrifice your child for it.” One friend even visited a Fort Worth elementary, I’m not sure which one, and told me it wouldn’t work because (and I quote) “from what I saw it was, like, 99% black.” My jaw dropped to the floor and she quickly tried to justify what she said by talking about cultures, blah blah blah, but what she said was racist and she knew it and I knew it. I grew up in the Albuquerque public schools, which are predominately Hispanic, and I do believe I received a fine education. Kids in schools that are dominated by one race probably receive a lesser education–I would imagine that their social skills suffer from not knowing anyone outside of their race/culture.

    Jul 1st, 2008

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