Could Camp Bowie’s Loss Be The Near South Side’s Gain?
by Pete Wann
Photo by Phil Ridlen
Loyal reader Chewy pointed me toward an article in the S-T about the troubled future of the original location of Kincaid’s Hamburgers. Apparently the new owners (Dallasites!) of their building are attempting to increase the rent on their space to levels that are unprecedented on Camp Bowie, and have been unable to come to an agreement with the Gentry family, who own Kincaid’s.
As a result, the Gentrys have until August when the current lease runs out to find a new location for their iconic burger joint. It would be a sad day when the only locations of Kincaid’s are in the suburbs (Southlake, Arlington, Hulen, and planned stores in Weatherford and at Alliance Town Square).
Chewy suggests that they should/could relocate to the hip and up-and-coming Near South Side. BJ Keefer’s closed recently, and I’m sure the property owner there is looking for a tenant for that space. There’s plenty of local businesses to pack the place at lunch, it’s easy to get to from downtown, and there’s way more parking along Magnolia than there ever was at the old location. Not to mention that the one-two punch of Paris Coffee Shop and Kincaid’s would be almost more Fort Worthyness than should be legal.
(I also think that following Fuzzy’s to the new Race Street development would be a cool idea. It’s probably easier to get to from downtown than either Magnolia or Camp Bowie, and that area is really hot right now. I’m sure there are a TON of places on the North Side as well, maybe somewhere along Main, like in front of LaGrave Field.)
If an agreement isn’t reached and Kincaid’s has to move, where would YOU like to see it move? Let us know in the comments!
18 Comments, Comments or Pings
Adam S.
This idea borders on genius. As a near south side resident (sounds much better than south central), I would like to see Kincaid’s on Magnolia Ave. It could keep that old school feel and be close to downtown. The Kincaid’s in the ‘burbs aren’t the same. Shoot, I was dissapointed to learn that Kincaid’s takes credit cards now at the Camp Bowie location.
Mar 13th, 2008
Dustin Askins
ARGH! I know business is business, but…man, Kincaid’s not being in what was once REALLY the grocery store, that’s half the appeal for me. It’s certainly half the fun in taking out-of-towners there, telling them about what it once was and having them realize the bar-style seating was once the aisles.
The one-two punch you mention sounds great, I haven’t been to Paris Coffee Shop and with Four Star recently closing I really need to check it out.
But being a Riverside resident I’m Race St. biased. I think Kincaid’s would fit in quite nicely there, as long as they don’t hurt The Swanky Shack’s lunch business. Perhaps Kincaid’s could finally be open for dinner if they moved to Race St.
Thanks for the inside track West and Clear.
Mar 13th, 2008
Pete Wann
You’re welcome, Dustin. Please keep in mind that this is only what some folks would desire. I wouldn’t even put this in the category of outlandish rumor. Right now it’s just wishful thinking.
Also, if you haven’t been to Paris Coffee Shop, I think I should warn you that it isn’t at all the same kind of coffee shop that Four Star is/was. It’s more of a greasy spoon that’s only open for breakfast, complete with counter seating and sassy waitresses. (I prefer to get my sass from the waitresses at Ol’ South, but to each their own, I suppose.)
Mar 13th, 2008
brandon
Their lease is expired already. They are month-to-month on the rip-off terms if I read the article correctly.
As neat as it would be on Magnolia, it would be a crime for them to leave rapidly redeveloping Camp Bowie. They’re part of the identity of Camp Bowie, and a link to the street’s past. Camp Bowie advocates need to do whatever it takes to find them a new home. On the bricks. Where they belong.
On another note… how in the *hell* can you not have been to Paris Coffee Shop? Maybe you’re new, but grace periods don’t last forever, you know!
Mar 13th, 2008
JBB
I have a feeling that a deal will be reached for them to stay in the original location. The owner is taking a huge risk by demanding that rate and it will be very expensive to find another tenant if the Gentrys call her bluff.
Mar 13th, 2008
Chewy
For the record I don’t want it to move. It would be a shame to leave that location as that location and layout is their history. In no way do I want to see that changed.
However, if there’s no possible way to save it I’d love to see it in the Near South Side and especially on Magnolia. I do have a personal bias living off Magnolia.
Mar 13th, 2008
Darren
Yeah, I’m part of the group that dies to know that they won’t be staying at the old location. Near South Side is cool, but I can’t walk there!
Mar 13th, 2008
quaid
Paris Coffe Shop is open for Breakfast and Lunch M-F. Saturday, they close the doors at 10:59am. Was walking out at 11:10 when the owner Mike Smith told a family (G’ma, G’Pa, Young Husband and Wife and a Kid) they were closed. They responded, “But we drove from Dallas. Southern Living said you guys were open till 12.” He coldly responded “Misprint” and closed the doors.
I love Paris and you can find me there on more saturday’s than not. The waitresses are friendly, and it doesn’t have the wall of smoke that Ol’South has. Prepare to wait in line for a table on Saturday morning. 10-15 minutes is about the average.
Mar 14th, 2008
Pete Wann
Ol’ South, like all other restaurants in the city, is smoke-free now. It’s a totally different experience.
If Paris had amazing food, it’d be worth the hassle to get down there on a Saturday morning when you really feel like just sleeping in. But they don’t, and that, combined with the kinds of things that you described above, are two reasons I don’t go there.
I’m not saying that Ol’ South has amazing food. I’m just saying that you never have to worry about being turned away, the management is friendly, the waitstaff is friendly and efficient, and it’s pretty darn good greasy spoon food.
I know Paris is an “institution,” but so is Ol’ South, and no one has been able to provide compelling reasons why Paris is any better.
Having said all of that, if anyone hasn’t been to Paris, they should totally go, at least once. I’m not trying to tell anyone that they’re dumb for liking it, I’m just saying why I don’t like it.
Mar 14th, 2008
John Peter Smith
Call me an Old Foggy (others have called me worse) but I refuse to eat at any location other than “The Original” Kincaids, and I live just a few blocks from the Hulen site. I will not even acknowledge that there is a Kincaids in Southlake, that’s just wrong on so many levels.
I propose that the city declare the original location a Historical and Cultural Landmark and that any changes to the place have to be okayed by the Historical & Cultural Landmarks Commission. The red tape involved in that should make that greedy dallas landlord think twice about messin’ with our cultural institutions.
Mar 14th, 2008
Tyler Borne
This is another sad example of the dissappearing Fort Worth - at least as we knew it 40-50 years ago. In the Camp Bowie area, who remembers Joe Vigne’s, Finley’s Cafeteria, or the Ice House? These were venerable fixtures in the 60s and 70s, but they’re gone now. Thank God the Original is still there, albeit in an expanded version of its pre-80s footprint. More is better in this case. I miss the downtown FW of the 50s, before the malls came, but they’ve done a wonderful job of re-inventing it, and the old buildings are beautifully restored and re-purposed.
Change is inevitable, and not just in FW. I lived in Manhattan during the late 70s and watched my neighborhood lose its German/Hungarian ethnic businesses to rising rents. I saw the gentrification of the upper west side, too. I preferred the seedy old mom and pop shops to the suddenly-hip Gap stores that took over. When I got back to Texas in ‘85, the town had changed so much I hardly recogized it. As they say, you can’t go home again.
A year ago I drove along Camp Bowie out by Ridglea CC, first time in 20 years, and I didn’t recognize it. I loved Fort Worth when I grew up there, but it’s not the same city anymore, so I don’t mind not living there now. It will never be the same as it was, but it’s still a fine city, and at least we all have our fond memories. For the record, I too will refuse to patronize any Kincaid’s location other than the original.
Mar 15th, 2008
Bernie
JPS, good luck getting the city to designate anything. If they won’t even designate their own historic properties (i.e. Will Rogers, Trinity Park Duck Ponds, Botanic Gardens, etc), they’re not about to tackle private property unless the owner requests it.
As I understand it, in the past two years the H&CLC hasn’t designated a single building.
Mar 17th, 2008
Dustin
As another Dustin in Riverside, I cast my hypothetical vote for a race street location. However, if it did come down to that, it would be a sad sad day in Fort Worth’s history.
Actually thinking about this, wouldn’t forcing one of Camp Bowie’s institutions out be somewhat counter productive. So much of CB’s charm are the wonderful restaurants along that stretch of brick. It seems as though places LIKE Kinkaid’s are the ones attracting the development.
Mar 17th, 2008
Lee Shovlin
To hell with Kincaids. They think they should get special treatment because they’ve been there so long. Rent on Camp Bowie is ridiculously high. There’s no way around it and it’s finally caught up with Kincaids and their overpriced hamburgers. Poor babies. Someone get them - and the rest of the cry-babies in Fort Worth who support that place - a box of tissues.
Mar 17th, 2008
Tyler
Lee, you’re right, this change is inevitable. It’s just business. Nobody here seems to be crying; some of us miss the character and scale of venerable local stores, that’s all. If Kincaid’s burgers are too pricey for you, take heart. Maybe their vacated space will be filled by a McDonald’s.
Mar 17th, 2008
Lee Shovlin
Tyler, I certainly do not support strip malls, McDonalds and Starbucks and the general wiping away of FW’s character. I never said that. I said I don’t think Kincaids should get a better deal on their rent than everyone else on Camp Bowie. It’s not fair to the other businesses.
Mar 18th, 2008
brandon
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that Kincaids somehow deserves to pay below market. And I certainly don’t interpret the article as saying Kincaids is asking for special treatment.
As far as I can tell, Kincaid’s being asked to pay somewhere in the middle to upper range in $/sqft for absolutely low-end obsolete commercial space, and they are balking.
The owner hasn’t a snowball’s chance in hell of getting that kind of money from anyone else for that building. As the property sits currently, its greatest value is the tenant. Once empty it is just a crappy structure that can’t meet code, competing with modern spaces. Considerable capex will be required before it can generate income again.
I imagine that in the end, the two sides will agree. As has been discussed on the FW forum, they aren’t as far apart they seem at first glance. The owner will get more than they probably deserve considering the state of the structure, and Kincaid’s will be able to preserve what little is left of its soul.
Mar 18th, 2008
Tyler Borne
Point taken, Lee. I think we’re all basically on the same page: Hoping Kincaid’s can remain in bidness but knowing that they, like all of us, must eventually bow to fiscal realities.
Mar 19th, 2008
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